Episode 11 - "Shaping the Future of GSE": Live Panel Discussion at the 24th GHI Annual Conference in Lisbon

Matthew Weitzel: 0:16

This episode of the GSE podcast is brought to you by Xcēd ground support equipment leasing your trusted partner for GSE solutions. We specialize in tailored operating leases for ground handlers and airlines, offering top notch equipment and flexible terms to suit your needs. Partner with the industry leaders. We're committed to bringing you the equipment offerings that keep your operations running smoothly and efficiently. Choose exceed for competitive rates and exceptional customer service. Visit xcedgse.com today, and soar to new heights with exceed ground support equipment leasing. Hello, this is Michael big. This is Josh Smith. I'm Brian Yoder. This is Justin Brennan and you're listening to the GSD podcast. All right, welcome to a special edition of the GSE Podcast. I'm here with Max Gosney. Recently, in November, we were at the GHI Annual conference at 24th The GHI Annual Conference in Lisbon, and I was unable to attend. So in my stead we had Max Gosney to host a panel that we recorded live in Lisbon. So welcome Max How you doing? Hello

Valentin Schmitt: 1:35

Matt Welcome. Welcome listeners. Hello everyone. And the first thing I should say is that your job is on 100% secure as host of this podcast so you no need to worry about that given my performance. I thought you did the GSE panels regular listeners need they're not Yeah,

Matthew Weitzel: 1:50

exactly. Well, I thought you did a fantastic job honestly I just I just got a chance to listen to it and I was so impressed with your hosting skills which I you know shouldn't be surprised anyone you've been doing that How long have you been doing these panels so

Valentin Schmitt: 2:04

shy about seven years now come out seven years and then previously you know journalist by background and did quite a lot of facilitation and conference seminars in my in my previous role editing manufacturing magazine. So yeah, it's it's where I feel at home now. So enjoy it and you're always blessed if you can have such a great lineup of panelists from the across the GSE industry and we got that in there. Thanks for your help putting the panel together but we certainly got that and Lisbon. We had a glittering cast of top GSE suppliers users we had Jen Jen Matt CI image chair marketing director and aviation ground equipment Corp. Valentin Valentin Schmidt Group Chief Executive Officer at TLD. So no huge name in the industry. Really interesting insight from Valentin we have Brad and we all know Brad very well Brad comms and Global Sales Director at Textron. Jesse you worked with Brad has been a previous guest. Great guy Gnosis knows everything there is to know about the equipment market and he made some really telling contributions on what he saw as the future of GSE. Mark, Mark Bucha. Again, lovely guy, great guys, Global Director of GSE sales at Advanced charging technologies. AACT. You know, the hardest speaking Bostonian as the self stars themselves a, he has some really good, vehement opinions on the direction of, you know, sustainable tech and battery technology. And you'll hear from him when we play the tape shortly. But oh, in Greg iron McKenna, commercial director, or AWS Malla. Han, some pretty interesting insights from from everyone on the panel too. And then the user perspective, from data data, Brunel who is Group Director of ground operations at tui airlines. So we had a kind of an airline view, which was really interesting in the session, I just, yeah, great. To get some different perspectives on what those those big hitters saw as the main themes. There was a lot of commonality around the direction of travel towards sustainable power sources, electrification. But what we do in interim when the charging infrastructure isn't quite there, the role of hybrids raw hydrogen, potentially as a power source, and we kind of got it as well. So broader views of the technology hasn't really changed enough the push back in the last 4050 years and other GSE do we need to really be a lot bolder in the way we design equipment, and we heard about sexy pushback. So that's a whole new Yeah.

Matthew Weitzel: 4:29

Song or anything, that's just something that Brad didn't came up with on the spot. That's

Valentin Schmitt: 4:33

one of Brad's deepest desires, apparently to desire. But it was a great point. And it's that thing of, you know, we look we do a lot of cross comparison with the automotive sector. And the way that car makers have adapted pieces of AI technology, the design of cars, how they've changed and it was just interesting to kind of, I guess, remove one step removed from being so close to all of this kit to think as actually as a tool. A person has GSE kind of, you know, from the base design kind of moved forward and often what will how will how might it not change in the shape of equipment change in the next decade or two decades. So, I learned a lot.

Matthew Weitzel: 5:13

Yeah, it was a perfect topic, I thought, bright enough for everybody to enjoy in talking about the future of GSE. I think everybody's really going to enjoy this episode. And just great panelists. And I appreciate everybody joining in. I obviously appreciate you taking over hosting responsibilities since I couldn't be there. So thank you so much.

Valentin Schmitt: 5:33

It was an honor was all mine. And but I'd echo your thoughts on wonderful contributions to the panel. And thanks to everyone for coming on board, and they're giving up their time to do it. For

Matthew Weitzel: 5:42

sure. So what does GHI have in store for 2024. We've

Valentin Schmitt: 5:49

got lots come out. And we've just we were absolutely thrilled with the support we got there and Lisbon it was a record breaking attendance for us we had 950 delegates during the conference which was smashed the previous record was about 135 140. So it was phenomenal and just shows how what rude health the aviation market is in and the desire to get out and connect and talk about new business opportunities across the world. So we're thrilled with the support and thank you to everyone for getting behind it. And our our ambition is to kind of build on that. The next year, you know, grow the event and scope even more. We talked I think on the last time I came on the show about the expanded role for airports recent great discussions with leading airport representatives that sugar bowl at Dallas Fort Worth. And we pioneered a new meet the airport roundtable networking session where we could just sit those airport leads down with other delegates from suppliers through to handlers and airlines just to talk about it as an airport. This is what we're doing for electric charging infrastructure. You know, what are your needs isn't just connect the community up. And there's a lot of talk at the conference, you know, one of the key sentiments was how important the airport can be as a kind of conduit. For a lot of the the development areas we were talking about sustainable practice, you know, skills problems that that airport landlord has such an important position, unifying the interests of airlines and ground handlers and suppliers to expand in those areas. The airport's the kind of canvas that can bring bring those things together. So we're really excited with the support we've gotten from the airports, we just want to push on and take that momentum out to our regional events, beginning with the Asian conference in Kuala lumper, which is from the fifth to the seventh of March. That's our next big event. And we're hearing a lot of positivity from Asian carriers and the Asian market, which has suffered deepest and longest from the COVID disruption. Now, China's open businesses coming back and you're just looking at the latest IoT figures that Asia Asia Pacific market is, is huge and is outperforming all other global sectors and kind of after such a long protracted difficult spell is now really reasserting itself as the most exciting growth market or from all of all the regions for for the aviation sector. So really looking forward to that event and love to see as many of suppliers, delegates, handlers, airlines join as possible to build that event, you know, largely a largest we can get it and then from there, we'll be back to the Americas. But we'll be offering over the pond to join new map for the eighth ghci Americas in Toronto, but we're going into Canada for the first time. And that is towards the end of June. And we'd love to sort of I would love to hook up with you and get you there on stage and the handover to the trooper I was the facilitator and look at some of the topics that we explored on the GSE panel in Lisbon with a link towards the Americas market.

Matthew Weitzel: 8:37

I think that sounds great. Yeah, let's let's plan on doing a panel and this time I can join and we'll do it in Toronto. I'm very excited about the Toronto, you know, conference that the Americas it's going to be fantastic. We've never we've never been in Canada before. And yeah, I think very good all the North American market and South American market together in an easy place to fly into very easy to get to to Toronto in such a beautiful city. So I'm very excited about it. So thanks for bringing that

Valentin Schmitt: 9:05

to know delighted looking forward to it's such an exciting event for us the Americas conference in the growth, it's hard and we're down at the Sheraton Centre in Toronto, so near the water on 25th to the 27th of June. But love to get on stage with you and Yeah, sort of expand on some of the discussion that we're going to hear about when we press the tape in a minute. That happened in Lisbon.

Matthew Weitzel: 9:25

Yeah, in the weather in Toronto in late June is going to be unbelievable. So it's gonna be it's gonna be perfect venue. So yeah, did once again, thank you so much for getting up on stage. I know you're used to it, but you know, hosting this podcast for me and in being there and asking all the good questions that you did. And thank you again to all our panelists because what a fantastic job that they did. And I think everybody's really going to enjoy this episode and make sure that you stay tuned to the very end of the So because that's when the fireworks start really going off, so I think everybody's not really gonna like it. Yeah,

Valentin Schmitt: 10:07

you can't have Brad on stage without fireworks at the end. So delivered.

Matthew Weitzel: 10:11

Yeah, he did he delivered in a big way. So well, Max, do you have anything else? Or should we get everybody right into the episode? Oh no, I

Valentin Schmitt: 10:18

just just really looking forward to doing this again in the Americas. But just so maybe the listeners if you hear anything you want to sort of get in touch with with Matt or, you know, on topics you'd like us to go into a bit more depth on that we'd love some audience direction engagement, I think.

Matthew Weitzel: 10:34

Yeah, yeah, that's a great idea. So listeners, if you want to reach out to max or I, you know, we're on LinkedIn, just shoot us a direct message and tell us what you want to hear about at the Americas conference. And we'll start building a panel and we'll get the experts up there to talk about it. Definitely. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. I hope everybody enjoys this special episode of the GSC podcast. We're

Max Gosney: 10:58

on Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Good afternoon. Welcome back to the day two afternoon sessions. Here in the conference room. We are launching into a panel session looking at GSE and defining the future of GSE what it might look like talking about power sources, talking about autonomous vehicles. And I'm delighted to welcome up prestigious panel made up of manufacturers, equipment users to give us their insight. This is an open panel discussion. We're gonna have some questions, no presentations here, the panel's insight and then make it very two way and get your submissions. Welcome to put up your hands to ask them questions or submit them on the app. Please join me in welcoming up the panel. So we have Brad Brad Compton, who is Global Sales Director at Textron. Jesse, welcome to Brad on round of applause for Brett please take a seat. Thank you. We have Dieter Dieter Bruyneel who is Group Director of ground operation at two operations are it to the airline. Welcome to Lita Thank you. We have Jen Jennifer Massey, who is representing IEMA and marketing director at Aviation ground equipment Corp. Welcome to you Jen. Thank you. Please join me on my on the stage take a seat. Thank you very much. We have Mark Mark Reppucci, who is Global Director of GRC sales at Advanced charging technologies ACT Welcome to Mark thank you please take a seat. Got it right this time. We have Owen Owen McKenna, who is commercial direct RW at Mallaghan. Welcome to you O N ank. You. Good to see you. Please take a seat. Please, please be seated. So save your legs. And we have Valentin Valentin Schmitt who is Group Chief Executive Officer at TLD. Valentin Welcome to you. Thank you for joining us. Thank you. Board if you take a seat. Just before we get underway, ladies and gentleman, you're hearing this in a room but delighted to say that will be thanks to the support of Matt. Matt. Wait, so we are broadcasting this is a special episode of the GSE podcast. If many of you have heard of the GSE podcast, regular listeners, I advise you to go and check it out. We've got some former guests here with Brad and Jen. It's a great show talks about the latest developments in the GSE market and some of the key characters working within Jesse. So thank you to Matt for letting us do this is a special session. And don't worry regular regular listeners. Matt will be back at the next episode. But you're stuck with me for today. But I wanted to get us underway by the panel by asking a strategic outlook foresight question and get your to contribute. And and it is this to begin, you hear it said in industry circles that the fundamental look and feel of GSC hasn't really changed a great deal in the past 30, 40, 50 years. My question to you is is they're about to be a step change in equipment design, power source, how it looks, how it appears outside the aircraft? And how different will what we see be in the immediate future. Valentin, I'll begin with you. What's your what's your outlook for

Valentin Schmitt: 14:00

us? Well, thanks for the question. I think it's it's an important question for manufacturers like us because we we need to anticipate a little bit what's going on. We see two major difference happening today in the in the markets. The first one is for many, many years, the connection between the GSE and the infrastructure was the fuel. So it was very easy. As long as you had fuel, you could operate your machine on your infrastructure and there was surely everywhere. When you when you move to electric equipment, or electric drive lines as we are doing today. The problem is to have the premise to have a connection between the infrastructure that is extremely diverse. So sometimes you're very clear city, you have the grid, you have chargers, you have hydrogen, you have whatever, and the GAC, that is an electric pipelines. And the future GAC will need to have the ability to adapt and to evolve to keep the connection between directly pipelines and infrastructure that itself is evolving all the time. So I think for us, that's the first big change on which we're working at the moment. The Second one is obviously, the fact that the machines are going to be more and more autonomous, more and more, I mean, safer and safer, less drivers, more electronics, more controls more things like this. And, you know, like it or not, it's like this. So, you know, I strongly believe that in 10 years from now, you are not going to have a driver approaching a loader to an aircraft, it's already today, you can do it automatically. So why not?

Max Gosney: 15:23

So electrification, automation, big things Owen? Yes,

Owen McKenna: 15:29

I would concur with that, obviously, you know, electrical vehicles existed 30, 40 years ago, and the market sort of pivoted towards, you know, diesel, and certainly you see the market, you know, a lot of these airlines have all signed up airport signed up to a very large sustainability, you know, Target, so sees change shift, of course, into sustainable fuels, whether it's, you know, electric, lead, acid, lithium, hydrogen, etc. And certainly the whole autonomous thing, you know, probably part of the biggest challenge and Europe, Middle East, you know, Africa, us and the recovery over COVID has been people. And the ability of, you know, as they airlines in the industry recovered, very, very rapidly. Part of the biggest challenge even us as manufacturers, it's the ability to recruit that large volume of people and competing of external industries as well. So yes, you look at the ramp, you look at pushback, tractors, you know, beltconveyers, stairs, loaders, even autonomous buses, you know, something, certainly in the next 10 years, I say, is a massive sea change and, and the market because people just by nature, certainly in the developed world, the ability to grow is going to be restricted by people, you know, I don't think it's going to be cash, maybe not even infrastructure, it's going to be ultimately people. So by introducing some autonomous technology, yeah, that definitely will help the industry help the ground handlers, the airports, and ultimately, the airlines. So So certainly, that's what I believe will we will continue to see. Thank

Max Gosney: 17:13

you, Mark. Yeah,

Mark Reppucci: 17:16

I think it's moving beneath our feet, the whole landscape. I think our partners are relying on data. I think they're trusting data. And the partners who are bringing that telematics, we have a lot of good partners out here that are delivering truck telematics, energy. telematics. They're making decisions on sizes of fleets on how they're doing their infrastructure, on the actual data that's be received to them. So we actually have a smarter partner out there, who's making decisions, not based on what they hear, but what the partners delivered to them.

Max Gosney: 17:50

telematic data driven decisions. Interesting stuff, Jeff,

Jennifer Matasy: 17:54

I was kind of taking it as a different approach. Can you guys hear me? Yeah, we're not just the telematics and the electrical piece of it. But the way that the equipment actually looks, when we look out the window is to know and we see it in 30 to 40 years, is there going to be that rectangular square box? Are we going to have like flying equipment, you know, that goes from one passenger boarding bridge to flying to another passenger boarding bridge? And what that looks like? Like, is everything going to remain? You know, just wheels on the ramp? Are we looking at really progressing and being forward thinking like the rest of the technology, our car technology and that automation? Or is it just going to be you know, the technology inside the cabin that people are driving? Is that going to be more iPhones, you know, as aircrafts or Swift's shifting from being round dials, you know, the way we used to fly with old, you know, steam gauges, to now we all have iPad, like kind of thing. So, is that technology changing? And is that going to be advancing? And is that what our customers you know, are looking for? So I kind of took it a different approach. What else are we doing to not just stay green and sustainable? But what are we doing inside the cabin for training for safety? You know, is it kind of a bumper car look, because there's so many accidents on the ramp that, you know, these brown handlers hit these fuselages? And what are we doing for our equipment in that respect to add safety, a level of safety as we continue to grow in the future with technology? Yeah. Because

Max Gosney: 19:27

you think about you compare the analogy with the car, look at a car from the 1970s very different to a car in 2023 the design but perhaps GSE changes in the stock. I mean, how, what are your thoughts?

Brad Compton: 19:39

I think Jennifer nailed it there. I mean, that the ramp has always been congested. I think that's what we're up against is is the congestion on the ramp, and we're trying to find ways to help the ground handlers help the airlines and along with that is you've got to mention safety like you, you nailed it. Safety is not a competition. But as you talk about safety, you're going To evolve the products on the ramp to help support the customers that we have from a safety standpoint, but you still have to push up the pole, you have to load and you have to spray airplanes. And and that is where you look at the innovation and how that's come from the 1950s. To where we are now, there hasn't been a whole lot of change. But I think when you look at the the electrification, which is in the driver's seat now, if you will, and that's what people are talking about that that gives you the option to really innovate in and can get these products look a little bit different. When the power chains are off of a bag, for instance, and you plop in a battery, that vehicle become a little sleeker. So it's not a sexy business, but we're making some progress. Data,

Bruneel Dieter: 20:44

maybe from if you look at it from an innovation perspective, sometimes innovation is being driven also by by the customer. And from an airline perspective, I think we need to be honest, if if we were talking and looking to ground service equipment in the last years, from from an airline perspective, we're looking at it having it safer, and maybe more efficient, so that it could bring the price down of turnarounds. So these were the elements where we were looking at it and for the rest to what a what type of aircraft or what type of GSE that we have around the red crop was maybe less important while we see now. If I speak for tui, we will achieve a net zero emission across our operation by 2050. And that includes the supply chain. So that means that while in the past, we were not really looking about to what types of GSE that we were using, we do now start to look at it. And apart from the price and different other elements, the sustainability score of a ground handling, including their GSE as an as a major part of the of the choice that we make to choose for one or another ground handling service provider.

Max Gosney: 21:58

Absolutely. With that, and you are obviously you're pushing towards more sustainable equipment being used around the aircraft. But that brings us into the issue of infrastructure. And a lot of hand as we discussed this morning will is a constant thorn in the side that that infrastructure isn't there at airports right now. And there, there is likely to be a transition period before it comes on if ever come Come on one. So I guess from the panel, what can we do to facilitate that transition through to electric? Is the future purely electric? Or are there other fuel sources hydrogen, biofuels that may play a part as well Valentin?

Valentin Schmitt: 22:30

So I think we have to segregate two things, you have to segregate the drive line, whether it's electric or something else. And the power source where the electricity is coming from, I think the drive line is electric. And I don't think we have any other things in the process at the moment. And it works. It's good enough, it's up to the challenge, we don't have technical challenges is developed on every product line, I think this is behind us. As you said the big problem now is to integrate those electric drive lines into the infrastructure. And it's this problem of which comes first because any customer in the world has the same problem, the infrastructure is not there. And when is there the machine are not there, and everybody's waiting for the other one. And we can wait for that until the the ice is gone. So it's, we need to do something. So we've decided that drive at dive line is is done. And by the end of next year, that the only thing we're going to provide, it's a weekly dive line, that what we are clearly doing now is we are putting all our energy into providing brakes to bridge the infrastructure with the drive line. So how can any customer today decide to Go Electric, and then use the brakes that they need to bridge with the infrastructure in that part of the airport. So typically, and I mean, the story we are using is an in a very advanced airport, I have chargers and everything, I just put batteries, very easy. And that's what has been done for many years. Now, you are on the on the remote stents we are accessing charges is not easy, but you have you know, I don't know 400 deaths then you will put batteries and onboard charges connected to a 400 Dots and you can charge with this. Now you you don't even have that then you put a Nigerian hybrid module and you will charge with a gensets so it's it's kind of internal combustion engine but it's still namely pipeline. And if tomorrow this airport is having green hydrogen, then you you can put a fuel cell onto the machine and get the electricity from the from the fuel cell that the interest of those bricks is they are interchangeable because the infrastructure is different everywhere and is changing all the time. So if today you you have nothing and you put a hybrid system if in three years from now, electricity comes and charges comes you don't want to change the machine. You want to be able to take your hybrid system out and put the battery in so your electric and if it's five years after the airport comes and says it has to be idle Jane I've made the investment I put the you know there is an origin available. Then again and you don't want to change the machine. So you put the battery out, and you put a fuel cell in. And it's it's interesting to see if I look at the, you know, theory we have 250 engineers globally for r&d, the quantity of engineers that are today focused on the bricks rather than the machines is impressive. It's on the bricks that we are putting the efforts today is making the connections between infrastructure and electric machines. Okay, thank you.

Brad Compton: 25:24

I was gonna say I breath. Sorry, I didn't mean was, as I had a thought here at times, I think the 2050s I think that's we're talking about 2050 a lot in this conference. And I'm not quite sure where that came from. But to go, I think the long term prize is to go net zero. That's what everyone's goal is. I think we could do it. But I, what I was thinking isn't we're not a one size fits all in terms of the territory, the airport. So we still have a lot of work to be done. We've made huge progress from the manufacturing side. And I think the airports are on board too. But it's just, I don't think it's a one size fits all. So there's a little bit of work to be done to kind of attack that 2050 goal.

Max Gosney: 26:02

And you would see hydrogen or other fuels. Yeah,

Brad Compton: 26:06

like I said earlier, I think Electric is getting all the attention, I think hydrogen is kind of sitting in the background looking and trying to peek around the corner. That's all about infrastructures, you've got to have the airports that could load up on the hydrogen from a fuel standpoint, but

Max Gosney: 26:18

we we saw from the guys at Universal hydrogen yesterday have sort of interchangeable plug on

Brad Compton: 26:23

the on road, like I think, you know, you've got the Tesla and all these electric cars, but then the hydrogen is trying to catch up, it's just where you're going to fill up that car.

Yves Crespel: 26:31

Apart from apart from the hydrogen and the electric part, you also still have the surface of course, which which we talk a lot for aircraft, which we can also serve ground service. Equipment, if if you look at at the surface, I think the pros are the compatibility or you can you can use them in more traditional equipment, so you don't need to use the newer equipment, it comes with reduced emissions. And okay, it can be produced from renewable feedstocks, or whatever. So it can make part of it's a solution that can be part of a bigger solution as well, of course, you have the limit, the availability is limited from from software, it comes with a significant cost and and you have the the infrastructure where you need to develop and if if they don't look at the other two, now, with hydrogenic, comes a zero emissions, you have the quick refueling opportunities there, which helps of course, you have the infrastructure challenges, and the versatility and it can be used in various types of vehicles. Although it comes with IT infrastructure development, like we just discussed with with energy intensity to make it so that's sometimes an element that has been forgotten. And it comes with with the storage and distribution challenges. And then of course, the electrical power, where where, which is probably the most advanced now comes with the zero emission and the energy efficiency, which is much better than than the SFX ante and the hydrogen. And you will also have the reduced noise pollution, which is, which is another element around around the aircraft. The cons are, of course, that the range is still limited, you need to have the charging infrastructure. And don't forget the battery manufacturing impact and what you do with the batteries after a certain period.

Max Gosney: 28:15

Thank you Phantom, did you wish to come back?

Valentin Schmitt: 28:17

No, it was just, I think the hydrogen is a is a constant. I mean, it's an interesting element. But we have to keep in mind that hydrogen is not a is not replacing electricity at all Gen is just a storing of energy. So you still need a very clear timeline at the end. Okay,

Max Gosney: 28:32

thank you. We've got some questions coming in from Aaron, you know, I take the questions.

Owen McKenna: 28:37

gonna raise a point out obviously, the, you know, electric today, probably easily whether it's lead acid or lithium can account for maybe a 90% of Tse, but you take some of the snow clearing equipment, you know, or a snowblower is a good example, you know, it's it's over 1000 brake horsepower is blowing a ton of snow every two seconds. So you have to see hydrogen being a fuel source for the heavy machine of of that cane or because just to achieve that goal, you know, purely via electric, you know, let them as just not possible, you know, that. So, I suppose all the time I read a good article at the weekend, like the every two minutes, the sun emits the same amount of electricity or consumption, human consumption and a year. So you take that power source that, you know, every two minutes is the equivalent of human consumption over a year. So obviously, it's how you harness that power source and how you you know how we use it, not only in aviation, but you know, a non aviation so when you really think of both that are your main processes that you've just a huge untapped resource that we're just not not using. Okay,

Valentin Schmitt: 29:52

we've got some questions coming in. So I'm gonna find these to the panel. Great one here. Why does my why does the car have more safety technology than GSE? Why does Is the GS industry lacks speed on innovation? Brad

Brad Compton: 30:04

Oh, that's that's loaded right there. I know, I think we've made progress. But yeah, again, I think the ramp is a lot different than driving on highway. And I'll go back to safety we've made a lot of, we've done a lot of work on the safety front. And again, I'll say that's not a competition, we're gonna learn from each other. And I think all manufacturers have to talk about how we make the ramp safer. I think we're getting closer to that. And I think you'll see that you when you shift into the cargo operations, that's more closely related in my mind to what happens on the highway. But a lot of the technology that's happened in the last 1015 years from electronic transmissions could get us there. So we have those those creep speeds, we have wheel straightening type safety features. And all of that comes about from us working together with with the customers, the majority of our customers, they own the equipment, they own the operation. That's their playground, and that's how we're gonna get the feedback on what we can do to make it safer. Cuz it is a beehive out there. And we understand that but yeah, I think we're gonna make much more progress here in the next 10 years in terms of getting more automotive, but then it'll come back to the debate we could have over beer. Next is the price you innovate, you innovate, you innovate, you gotta make sure that it's still within that, that sweet spot that the the customers are gonna be able to afford and continue to replace their equipment on the ramp.

Unknown: 31:25

Jen,

Jennifer Matasy: 31:25

did you wish to Yeah, I was just gonna say I think autonomous is starting to help with a lot of that safety. And that human element, that factor as well, where, you know, I know JB T is on the brink of doing some stuff with some of their loaders. And, you know, I know TLD has done stuff. But I think that that autonomous, is starting to bring in a lot of that safety aspect and taken out that human error, which is what we need. But there's also speed limits set on the ramp as well, you know, when you're driving in a vehicle, people are flying down at 90 miles an hour on a highway, where on the ramp that is, it's a lot slower speeds, this equipment is not moving at that pace, it's moving a lot slower.

Brad Compton: 32:04

But I think two is a good point is the speed of the what what customers expect for the turn, the speed of the turn, becomes a problem for safety on the ramp. I'm not a ground handler, but I assume that's could be part of the problem.

Jennifer Matasy: 32:17

Exactly. So my My thing is, is autonomous really is is helping that safety.

Unknown: 32:22

Good point. Thank you.

Valentin Schmitt: 32:24

I mean, I concur with with everything that has been said, but I think we also need to take some credit for what has been done. I mean, we are not so far from what the car industry is doing, you know, automatic approach for for loaders, looking automatically aircraft. It's happening today. I mean, you have several people in that room that use it, they don't have drivers to dock an aircraft. It's, that's that's the technique existing today. Line, you know, checking the that you are not getting out of the line and so on, do you have customers who are doing it today, and it's it's available on the machines, the telemetry is, is controlling things, and the we have dash cams on some machines to control the behavior of the people. And we report those data and we manage that in the cloud and provide it to customers. I mean, a lot of things are in the market. And if you remember that in 2012, or 2014, or something like this, the amount of electronic on the GSE was almost zero was almost zero. Today, you have a baggage titles that drive autonomously, from point A to point B every day, you know, our biggest corner of driverless legal is clocking 130 hours a week on machine. So it's I mean, it starts to be real activity carrying carrying goods every day. So and that has been done in the course of 10 years. You know, the guy industry, I've done that in a much longer, much longer race. So I think the machines were quite simple, you know, 10 years ago, but the industry has changed fast in the past few years.

Max Gosney: 33:59

There's a question linked to that, which says I oughta egg on 2023 has a recommendation for GSE to be equipped with proximity sensors to prevent contact obviously with aircraft during docking. Any thoughts on this? And you've said you do offer that capability was the second part of the questions but any thoughts on that you had related in Oregon?

Owen McKenna: 34:20

Well, you had the whole Ara hit him named one three came in in 2018, where every piece of DSC that was approaching aircraft are in contact with aircraft. Obviously if your were a member grind handler airline, you had to have a some type of safety controlled approach system. So we're really five years until that night and nearly I would say 99% of customers whether the IATA member or not any other member that have embraced that change have embraced that technology and you know and that's right across stairs loaders, you know beltconveyers You know where foot on their kid on trucks medical left, so, so do agree obviously with a lot brake technology makes that approach, but easier than doing it with, you know, Diesel Technology. And trying to control the proto obviously, as the market pivoted towards electric, it allowed us to introduce a lot more of that safety technology. So no, I agree with Valentin a Thank, you know, the sea changes in this market over the last seven, eight years on safety and approaches as an as you people think, sometimes unfairly, that come from other industries, you know, say we're way behind, but I certainly, you know, have saw a massive change and technology over the last number of years. And I see that continuing, you know, certainly around the whole autonomous pace.

Max Gosney: 35:44

Thank you. Question for you, Mark. Outside of infrastructure needs some requirements. What are some of the other consideration hurdles that you believe airport authorities face when transitioning to electric GSE?

Mark Reppucci: 35:56

We've talked here a lot of structure a lot of this year, a lot of it. And one big part of it is how many charges do I need? Not one for one is a two for two is a two for one. And that's where the intelligence of the new partners coming in. It's like, how do I right sighs my fleet? How do I know? I have X amount of equipment here? Do I need it? I'm told I need more equipment at this station at this station. Is it being charged? Is it being plugged in? Is it broken down? The intelligence of our partners is vastly different than three years ago. And I'm seeing it and they're asking questions. And they want to know, I need to have 25% over fleet size, just in case we have peak season, we have some damage and breakdowns. What if I have 35%, maybe I can redeploy some of this equipment, to other stations, reduce capex moving to electric. That's what they all talk to me about. Because it's not just the cost of the vehicle, it's the cost of ownership of the vehicle over the life. Everything breaking down. So they're looking at telemetry from the truck side, from the battery, the charger side, they want to know, they want to be told, when there is a problem, not be told, you're out of warranty because you didn't address a problem that you didn't know about. And that's really what they want. They don't know what they don't know. But they want to know, they just want transparency. They just want they want someone to help them teach their team better practices.

Max Gosney: 37:32

And this is that data out there on a wave kept up real time who who plugged into which charger.

Mark Reppucci: 37:38

Absolutely. They you know, when it comes to a fleet, that if I have a partner with a battery and a charger, and let's say sometimes the relationship doesn't work out. So if they have to remove that battery, did they have to buy a new charger, because it's lithium, they won't understand cannabis communication, they want something agnostic, because their job is move people and product and turns, you're going to do it efficiently, you're going to hit your carbon neutral goals, or at least run towards them. And we're going to go down that road right now. They want to just move people and product clean. And when there's a problem, please let me know. Because once again, I gotta move people in product I want I am getting into the battery and charger and electric business. But I don't want to be in the battery charger and electric vehicle business and the partners with the telemetry and the people all up here. That's where this whole industry is. They're all getting younger too. As we all get older, I thought I was gonna live forever. They're getting younger, and they grew up on this. Everything is data driven. Everything is there. So it's actually getting easier as these kids are coming in and the really sharp, not my sons.

Max Gosney: 38:56

The people on the podcast can only hear us They can't see us. So we're all 25 Yes, Australia we're sticking to and they don't want to comment on some of the issues Mark raises their round plug and play technology. Fantastic. So you're not in a way,

Valentin Schmitt: 39:07

like it's well, you know, we're working a lot with ICT. And it's all around those things and, you know, integrating the data and, and I think today, as manufacturers when I'm not a manufacturer, I'm not 100% happy with what we are doing, I think we are leaving far too many gaps, from the customer perspective between what the machine provide what the battery provide what the charger provide, and it's really our job to bridge those things and make something more user friendly. And I think that you know, quantity of data available at DCT is is very impressive. We ever so are set but it's you know, we have customers sitting in that room who are pushing us a lot to to integrate that better and provide some more, you know, something more usable, more visible. And I apologize we've not done the job well to now but that is on it's on the list. We're gonna work on that. But again, if I think the customer perspective then years ago, all our customers had people, you know, following cables on the machines and managing some relays and to know if it was working or not, it was easy. The relay was black. So that that was pretty simple. And now in just few years, they need to program machines, troubleshoot, PLCs, and connect on Canvas systems and multiples of cables computers and drag things on their telemetry. I mean, it's, and you know, I think the the ground support and the ground handling industry has faced the challenge. I mean, there is some gaps. But in 10 years, I'm not I'm not sure there's so many industries have made so many changes in a successful way. I mean, aircrafts are flying, the security is improving. You know, we are sitting 70% of our machines electric today, what's the ratio in cars? We have made our minds behind that. So, you know, I think we can be proud of what has been done. The

Max Gosney: 40:53

question for you that's come in the US, who do you think should finance the infrastructure costs for accessing charges, airports, governments, airports, ground handlers and MCs? So who should? Who should finance?

Valentin Schmitt: 41:06

I don't know, that means? No, I think I think that's a very difficult question. Because the it all depends on where the infrastructure is. It's a bit of a political question. So I'm not going to answer this one, what we do is we just try to have the machines adapting to what exists. Now, we also have to understand that for airports is very difficult, because not so long ago, Chargers were charging phones, because we were just charging baggage collectors that can drive. So you could actually drive to the charger. Now, when you have a towbarless tractor or loader that is electric, you're not going to drive seven kilometers with your loader to charge and seven kilometers back, because the readers will never come back. So now you need to charge in other areas, you need to have the power coming to the station to to the to the the aircraft sense, I mean, a lot of the parameters of the operation that changed again in just few years. So So I don't think I think we can't expect the infrastructure to move that fast. And we always complain that airports are not changing fast enough. But I think they really do a good job, because it's difficult. And it's our job to find ways that dielectric machines can wait for the infrastructure to come. And that's the transition and anyone else wish to comment. I

Brad Compton: 42:22

think I think if you want to push the sustainability, the airport's got to be on the front end of that, and help support that. And we live in a industry of multiple options. And from a manufacturing standpoint, we we work really closely with our customers to make sure that we could provide the equipment they're requesting and again, not one size fits all. But yeah, it goes back to infrastructure, because there's so many different options. For us, no airline is the same in terms of how we build that piece of equipment. So we have multiple different batteries, we now have multiple different connectors in that is got to get better in terms of being agnostic so that the airport could have that one stop shop and help us get there faster.

Valentin Schmitt: 43:04

Questions. Can we touched on automation? Question from the audience's? How are your customers thinking about GSE automation? Are they ready to deploy? Is the technical technology already ready for deployment? At scale in live operations?

Brad Compton: 43:19

I think from an autonomous standpoint, really close, I think there's different levels to that. A lot of testing in my personal opinion is I think is going to launch from a cargo standpoint first. That's my opinion, but I think we're getting there, I think it's coming. If

Unknown: 43:35

you're looking into the domain of ground operations, what are our main topics, main topics that we look at it is about safety, it is about sustainability. And it is about having the right amount of people that can work around the aircraft. So autonomous vehicles are kind of a potential solution and all of these things, what we do see in if we collaborate on some test projects, and these kinds of things as often constraints in in communication protocols, where where it seems to be difficult to get a one size fits all and and to find the right, the right way of dealing with it across the different the different parties that are involved. But from an airline perspective, I think it is it is absolutely the most go and if you look at the technology, in essence is there outside or industry but the technology is there. So it is a question of how can we translate that existing technology working into our our industry?

Mark Reppucci: 44:33

So I don't do anything autonomously. And I will tell you, especially in the EU, in the Middle East, every one of my partners are talking about it. This is something that is in conversations and it's mostly the progressive countries that are moving towards the future, especially in the Middle East. Every partner I talked to discusses autonomous vehicles from ground selling to people moving. That is a conversation that I hear all the time. So it's come they want it.

Valentin Schmitt: 45:08

But once you think we're talking at all but how long does he walk it? You know how long to walk the walk? Is there going to be? It is obviously a regulatory matter and issue around safety. Deployment. Have you ever been phases valent in your because obviously you're in development, easy mile, I think we, we have a bit of a continual divide that is happening those days. Because we talk about automation, as if automation was a technology for the future. That I mean, you have bots today. And again, there is operators in that room will recognize themselves, we're operating loaders that are automatically looking aircrafts. It's not that we we are discussing whether it's going to take 10 years or five years or whatever, we have people who are currently working at launching the head have it planned for all their machines to have all their machines automatically looking the aircraft. So the technology is, is not there for all automation of everything, the feel good portion of it, it's already here. And we see some customers where we I think we have the conversation with everyone that the conversation can be you know, what could happen in the future but about automation but we there is a certain number of customers with whom the conversation is what's the price what's the lead time when can I please appeal but for some good portion of automation is already here. So which continent continental split in which continent Do you see moving further and faster with the with the adoption of that automation and bots I think the others so the the supervision systems the thing that are doing the automatic looking at of aircraft and so on, this is the more mature part of the of the automation. So So we already there, the driverless vehicles, the level for driverless vehicles, is in our in our business, we are having to we are working on two verticals, the F box and the industry. We already have driverless vehicles without safety drivers, nothing operating in the industry. So it's you have several car manufacturer in Germany in the US in, in Italy, in France that are operating driverless, but they come from a world where they were using automatic forklift nuts. I mean, for a while already, so they're used to it. So they made that change pretty fast. In the in the export industry, the challenge is a little bit more complex, but not that much, but a little bit more complex, you need to align some some more stakeholders. So it's gonna take a little bit longer. But I mean, if we talk about 25, or 26, that's, that's, that's the maximum. And then we are, I mean, we already made agreements with big operators to develop high value solutions on large scale, so it's really now I mean, it's, it's happening now, and here

Max Gosney: 47:54

in Europe first, or Middle East.

Valentin Schmitt: 47:57

So for airports, it's honestly firepot is more in the US at the moment. But we for for industries in Europe for the automatic docking of aircraft, it's between Europe and the US be Japan or so.

Unknown: 48:10

Thank you, Jen, did you wish to comment? Yeah,

Jennifer Matasy: 48:12

I just wanted to touch on the autonomous that I don't think it's one or the other, I don't think it's that they have to focus on electric electrification and autonomous, I think it's coincide. And I think it's, you know, people want that safety, it comes back to that safety aspect. And you know, if the autonomous is safer, and it you know, there's so much damage, there's so much research out there on how many fuselage has had been damaged, and how much injury and you know, that is done by people driving these vehicles, that if a dominant, autonomous can reduce that cost of, again, downtime, and the airlines, you guys are to get people from point A to point B safely. And if an aircraft is down, that costs you a lot of money and very upset passengers that are displaced. So I think, you know, when we're looking at this, they're both very important to the industry, they're both very equally you know, what the customer needs and what the customer wants. And if the customer is wanting electric autonomous, that is what the manufacturers need to deliver to move us in this industry further into our future so that we're not falling back and behind, you know, what we need to provide to you guys as our customers. So

Unknown: 49:20

the zero the tolerance margin, of course, for an airline towards autonomous vehicles is zero, I mean, you You did not accept that you can have a hits every three months on the aircraft because of the autonomous vehicle. So the tolerance margin is of course, is of course zero. And I think in in the first step between you you see already now remote control autonomous vehicles were, which is a nice step in between and to full autonomous, because it can improve the it can improve technology, the communication protocols, and at least it can you continue to have a certain way of control around it.

Valentin Schmitt: 49:56

But I think what Jenny was mentioning is that the automation is We avoid the contact existing to the automatic vehicles are not damaging aircraft. Safety is in fact quite quite significantly improving. But it's there is certainly a certain number of steps that we can do to make the things more accepted from the customer perspective, because it's a big change. And again, that made the battle with industry. If you if you consider a car manufacturing assembly line, when they brought the robots into the manufacturing, they didn't look to cut manufacturers didn't wait for the robots to replace humans, they adapted their process, so that they could lead the process in such a way that part of the process could be treated by robots with the existing technology and new men's we're filling the gaps. And we clearly see today when we develop deploy driverless vehicles in the in the industry that they do the same, they are cutting the processes and they are making things that can be fully handled by machines. And the more complex ones are handled by humans, in the airport industry, we still have a bit of difficulty to make that because the general mindset is people are waiting for the machine to be like for like replaced by robots. And that's going to that's going to take a bit of time. It's not a claim base or trans AI, you need to adapt, you need to adapt, you need to segregate flows to dedicate to dedicate certain operations. I think both Jen and Brad have touched on how busy and frenetic the apron environment is a lot of GSE moving around. So it'd be interesting to get the views on is pooling and a possible answer. We've had GSA pooling at various airports is that that part of the No, I

Brad Compton: 51:30

think that's an absolute perfect plan, I think where you get caught up in that is going back to the specifications for each customer, and you could have pooling would work. I mean, it makes sense, then also, you got to take into consideration the maintenance part of that as well. But I mean, you could have two different airlines in a room talking about a piece of equipment and making those specs match and they will get off the table and leave because they can't figure out what light they want on top of an air start. But we can definitely get there. And I think that's a great approach to help declutter the ramp. So

Max Gosney: 52:02

some details an airline representative, I mean, but it's pooling part of

Unknown: 52:06

your it's an interesting topic, because you can even question whether it's not part of a broader discussion of having common use equipment on airports. 10 years ago, every airline had his own branded check in now you'll see common use self service backdrop machines, which is already common use, which is basically a little bit the same. So if if pooling comes with, with with better uses of the equipment, and of course, and comes with a better development, better investment, that will lead to a more efficient operation, everybody will benefit from it. So from that perspective, I think we can only be positive around it.

Brad Compton: 52:42

I think fleet management's a big part of that, too. If you have that technology for fleet management elements, assets, it becomes a lot easier.

Mark Reppucci: 52:48

Mark. Yeah, pooling is a great option, especially having infrastructure problems. And we've done that with a couple of airports. And they've taken it to the next level. And it's come to the agnostic charging, they're at the point now, where they're setting the charge profile for lithium ion, and lead acid batteries, when you bring your equipment to my airport. And you need to hit these benchmarks and this information. And the airport through telematics knows whose truck whose belt loader whose cargo load it was plugged into my charger, how long did it charge, how many kilowatt hours it to consume. And here are all your electric bills at the end of the month. So they're actually collecting the information and knows who's plugged in, where they're start, they're getting smarter, they want to know this stuff, and they're actually starting to monetize it, charging it back to the sorry, airlines, sorry, ground handlers didn't mean to bring this up. That's the Lord's goal. Now everyone's accountable so they can put charges anywhere, anyone can plug into it. I don't care pool for that for the big, wide body pushbacks you're gonna have the bigger chargers right there by the gates, but we can pull all the other stuff where all the parking sizes got to be the same. Make it happen. And that's really what they're pushing to. We've got several projects done and going on right now. They're a much more educated partner and it's really refreshing to work with.

Max Gosney: 54:21

I've been hearing a lot of praise for pulling from the panel and a great questions just come in which says pulling in common use of equipment at airports. Why do you think it is not so common? If we're hearing such love for it, then why why hasn't it taken hold?

Unknown: 54:34

I think a lot has to do in the in the current setup of how how the model has been organized with different ground handling providers for seeing You services and for the services they need people and equipment where you see that due to lack of lack of people at some points but also due to the evolution of the technology on above the wing. You'll see that airports come in and provides an invest, because in terms of investment airports have probably more funds available at some point than then than ground handlers. So it is, I think, a very good question towards the future model of ground handling our ground handlers going to provide us with a service and using equipment that will be provided by airports or others, or are we going to continue with with with such more a pooling, where they all buy their own and then combined, I think, if you look at it from a technique, theoretical point of view, the first one makes the more sense. But that that is probably going to be a big change in how we set up our ground handling market. And from that perspective, I'm looking very much forward to see how that evolution goes, and then how the different players are going to behave themselves in the in this environment. So interesting to see I think yet, that's

Mark Reppucci: 55:50

here now. And what's happened in the past? Are we going into XYZ station, Mr. Airport, I need some charges. They send it to procurement. And it's a race to the bottom, his charger thrown out there. You asked for a charger with what the industry has done from a vehicle side with telemetry. And what the airports and now because everything's data driven, it's coming. And it's here, because it's old technology. I mean, if most of the charge equipment out there is 2008, the old flip phones are great 2008. Try working with it today. And that's what's happening. They understand that type of technology, it can't work. If we want to get leaner, meaner, get a turns done, and make sure they coat one's going. And it's getting forced to a point. And they're bringing it they want to know that's the best part. It's being driven by the airport authorities, the ground handlers and the airlines. They want to get out of that business. So they're going to invest in it. So they don't have to worry about it.

Max Gosney: 56:53

Thank you. Question that had come in a minute ago says do you think some GSE could be used in other services or industries in low season demand at airports?

Brad Compton: 57:03

Yeah, I think there's definitely other markets for GSE. You know, we work hard to find those other markets. The industrial market is a prime example with car factories, car plants. So yes, yeah. If that was that answers your question. We're always looking for the different market segments.

Max Gosney: 57:20

Okay, we've got sort of last five minutes, I mean, still times you want to submit a question on the app. But I'd like to ask the panel, I guess each of you to kind of sum up the the innovation you are most excited by over the course of the next 510 years and why. So

Brad Compton: 57:37

I innovation is going to continue on. And that's that's a great thing. And we work real hard on trying to introduce new products yearly, if not more than that. I think it goes back to the conversation around safety. And I think you'll see more innovation within the safety of each of our products, I think of each product on the ramp. And I think that's going to be it, I think you've got to make sure you you introduce equipment into operations. Because as we talked earlier, it's very congested. And we continue to innovate that way and help help from a safety standpoint. That's what I'm excited about.

Mark Reppucci: 58:08

Mark, absolutely. matter that I like to talk

Unknown: 58:12

no longer than five minutes, okay.

Mark Reppucci: 58:15

Now, I feel like it'd be held up by my wife finish. Think about it this way, the electronics market is moving at lightspeed beneath our feet. With that the product has to move with it with product improvements is what happens to old electronics, it gets obsolete. And that's the important part, the industry leaders, the industry partners who are moving and continue to push as that electronics as that innovation comes in. It's here and the industry leaders are going to introduce it, test it, launch it, and it's been accepted. Everyone is moving, everyone is moving towards us. And the people say I've had that thing, 50 years, good, gotta break down and one day you won't be able to get parts for it. And you got about a six month lead time to get a new one. Those aren't my customers.

Unknown: 59:04

So you have to embrace the change and get on board with the changes. Jen?

Jennifer Matasy: 59:10

Oh, it's been awfully quiet over there. No, I

Max Gosney: 59:15

interesting because it used to start with saying go abroad. Look at actually how well the technology and the equipment. Will it be the box on wheels now? I mean, I'd be interested to sort of hear your thoughts on how you do you think it will look incredibly different? And

Jennifer Matasy: 59:29

it would be you know, I think we in this community, we need to be thinking forward a little bit faster. You know, to Mark's point, the technology is here, but it's evolving so quickly. And unfortunately, I feel like the GSE is kind of stuck in that our equipment has looked the same for 30 or 40 years. And we aren't making it new and exciting, which is why we're kind of losing those younger generation for wanting to be a part of this industry and actually wanting to be up out of the ground handlers and drive this cool equipment, and, you know, look forward to going to work every day that our phones are faster. The airplanes, you know, they're designing things that are cooler and sleeker. And our you know, the cars are cooler and sleeker. And our GSC equipment is not keeping up with that really cool, sleek innovation that these this younger generation is seeing in movies and seeing in video games and wanting to be a part of. So I think it's a challenge for us as manufacturers that we need to be a part of that sleek look, we need to be a part of that innovation, we need to be a part of those important safety features. You know, there's a lot out there, it's more than

Brad Compton: 1:00:36

what's more sexy than a big box of steel that pushes back an airplane. I totally disagree. I think that's fantastic.

Unknown: 1:00:42

There's something for everyone in this room.

Brad Compton: 1:00:45

But I think too, I was just thinking, I think we're focusing on equipment. But I think there's a lot of good innovation on the service side training and service and how you approach that from a customer service standpoint, I think that's key as well, not just equipment, but how you react to the customer's needs from from that aspect.

Jennifer Matasy: 1:01:02

Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to seeing what the next five years in this industry looks, looks like. And making it cool for that next generation to really want to be a part of this and be up here on this panel as well. And being excited about it just like we are in our business. Yep.

Max Gosney: 1:01:17

Okay. Well, I have to pick on our in now because you you've got to get them to lead in so and what do you think your final thoughts?

Owen McKenna: 1:01:24

I believe, as an industry, you know, manufacturers grown handlers, airlines, we do all push each other. You know, as a, as an industry group, we do push each other to innovate. You know, we've covered a lot of topics today on autonomous alternative fuels safety, telematics total cost of ownership. But I definitely believe as an industry and I can only speak among the manufacturers, we do push each other, you know, as an undersea to be innovative, because you just get left behind. You see it in other industries, if, if you don't continue to innovate and improve and think outside the box, you do in this industry get left behind. And I've taught so many times with other manufacturers. So I do believe collectively as a group, we collaborate on some things and we push each other on other things.

Unknown: 1:02:17

We thrive on. Thank you, dita. I've noticed your final attracting young people towards the sexy aircraft. is nice, but maybe not needing them is maybe also nice.

Max Gosney: 1:02:34

Thank you. I'm finally balanced in your final thoughts on innovation, what you're most excited about.

Valentin Schmitt: 1:02:40

I think what is exciting for us is to imagine a not so long ago, not too far away future, where we'll be successful in having decarbonize the industry. So not only having electric GAC, but also electric, you know, we taxiing. And I mean, having made that change, and it's, it's a challenge by itself. And I'm sure you've noticed that I'm quite excited by the development of automation. And and we look forward to see an operation that is much safer, less intensive in terms of people. I agree with the fact that we need to drive more things towards training and so on, we have now training system with VR and things that is a bit more sexy for younger generations. But I mean, yeah, with that, we are going to make the ramp I think looking quite different. By the end of the decade that it is today.

Max Gosney: 1:03:30

And working together on it has been a point that you've all touched upon to drive forward quicker.

Brad Compton: 1:03:35

And Max, it's exciting that we're all back here. I think every part of the world is here. It's exciting to see the numbers here and just to be together and network is it's exciting as well. So thank you,

Max Gosney: 1:03:44

I think Well, I think that comes to the sexy pushbacks more Werbach Thank you very much for your time. Certainly please give me join me. Sorry. I'm getting around, of course, the panel. Thank you all very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thanks. Thank you.

Mark Reppucci: 1:04:06

I'm Gary camp, and you've been listening to GSC podcast