Matthew Weitzel: 0:07

Celebrating 10 years of trailblazing in ground support exceed marks a decade as your leading partner in ground support equipment leasing at the forefront of both short term and long term leasing solutions exceed adapt to your unique operational needs. Whether you're ramping up for peak season or planning for long term growth, we provide the right equipment to keep your operations running smoothly. This anniversary we renew our dedication to empowering your ground operations with efficiency and innovation. With exceed you're equipped for success today. In prepared for the challenges of tomorrow. Exceed driving excellence on the ground year after year. Explore more at exceed gsc.com.

Alice Clarke: 0:54

Good morning from San Juan Tay. This is Alice Clark from JH AI and you are listening to the GSC podcast the day after the gala dinner.

Max Gosney: 1:05

Ladies and gentlemen, this session is going to be recorded as a podcast of the GRC podcast and delighted to welcome up Matt, Matt Weitzel, who's the host of the JSC podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, I have your attention round of applause Matt, please. So it's a great honor to be recording this next session with Matt and it will feature or as an episode of the podcast. I'm sure everyone out there knows the show and listening. So thank you very much, Matt.

Matthew Weitzel: 1:39

Yeah, thanks a lot. All right, we got Oh, man, this is great. Yeah, so thanks a lot for coming. This is going to be a special live edition of the GSC podcasts. And thanks to Max and GH i for having me up here. And we're going to talk some electrification, we

Max Gosney: 1:54

also keep the language clean, ladies and gents is live. So I've got to keep this one. Keep this one straight. But just to say you we will do want your questions come in as we're having this discussion. I'll pick them up on the ad we'll put the the app's iPad even. And we'll put the question slide up. So send some of your questions in as we're talking. The topic as Matt says is sustainability, the electrification electrification of the Americas apron, and I will now welcome up the panelists. We will get things underway. So first up, could I invite Brad Compton, Director of Sales at Textron Welcome

Matthew Weitzel: 2:32

back thanks a lot.

Max Gosney: 2:34

We have Marty Marty Gray, who's director of GRC and maintenance at Air Canada. Welcome up, Marty.

Matthew Weitzel: 2:46

Thanks a lot, Marty.

Max Gosney: 2:47

Next up, could Josh Josh Parkin, come back to the stage is with us this morning. He's senior sales manager at new technology products at Oshkosh. Aerotech Welcome back, Josh.

Matthew Weitzel: 3:01

Thanks, buddy. Okay.

Max Gosney: 3:04

And next up, we have Gabriel Gabriel Sampson, who is president at aborist. Welcome up, Gabriel.

Matthew Weitzel: 3:15

Thank you. Thanks.

Max Gosney: 3:17

And next we have David David Ferris, who is vice president fleet North America at Swissport. Welcome up, David. I'd like to welcome up next Oh wind Jaleel, who is Group Chief Operating Officer at TLD. Oh, and welcome up. And next up we have Todd Todd Ernst, who is Director of Energy and Environment greater toronto Airports Authority. Welcome up to I believe that is everyone. We were expecting. We've got a mixture here of manufacturers, we have an airport, we have ground handler we have an airline. So we've got the full gambit of the supply chain to talk to us about this big challenge of becoming more sustainable electrification, or other greener power sources. Map and I will hand to you or anything I'll say all I'll get things underway.

Matthew Weitzel: 4:17

Now. Let's get it underway. Yes, got it. Great. Thank

Max Gosney: 4:19

you see flick through his pages to the first questions that I sent through. So to open it up to the panel. What are your future GSE fleet strategies and what percentage of your GSE will be electric by the end of the decade?

Matthew Weitzel: 4:36

All right, Brad, you want to go and rob Bradley, just because

Brad Compton: 4:39

I'm down here at the end? Yeah, yeah, we're gonna Okay. So in terms of electrification, from a supplier standpoint, manufacturer standpoint, I think everyone has made so much progress when you reference 2019 to now. I think lithium is the key we have for manufacturing standpoint, we're about 65% Electric Rick this year, and mainly that's on our belt loaders. But I think if you look at every supplier, a lot of the manufacturers, they'll say, I would guess, above 50%. But I think we're gonna get a lot heavier on that percentage as we get into the next couple of years here. It will infrastructure is gonna catch up. But I think the signals we see from our customers are leaning that direction. So yeah, we're above 50%. I think just gonna keep growing up

Max Gosney: 5:24

or come to David, for this question.

David Farias: 5:27

Yeah. So on our end, I think right now we're about 22%. Electric, globally, we'd like to get to by the end of the decade, but 55%, that's our corporate goal. But at the end of the day, infrastructure plays a major role inside of that, and how we get to that point, but we've got some good partners here, that apparently are trying to make a little bit smoother with transition. So thank

Max Gosney: 5:49

you, Marty, perhaps bring you bring you in on this one.

Marty Gray: 5:53

or Canada, we've made some significant commitments for 30%, reduction by 2030, and net zero by 2050. So we need to be aggressive on the way we get there. I don't know if I would say, you know, full percentage of the fleet to be electrified, but rather specific fleet types where we know where it's proven. And we're very, very comfortable with who we've aligned ourselves with four belt loaders bag tractors. As we see evolution and other fleet types. I think we'll probably take advantage of it at that time. But I mean, we are fully committed. And he's climate objectives.

Max Gosney: 6:28

So a lot of desire and commitment increases are actually committed, as referenced by David. So it kind of leads to my next question around infrastructure. So who is currently providing the leadership and impetus in electrification of airports in the region? And who would you like to step up to take a more proactive approach to deliver the electrification and infrastructure that we need? I

Todd Ernst: 6:49

can start with that, I guess your HIPAA? Yeah. So I don't know if there's a single clear leader, I think everybody has started stepping up, really, whether it's the you know, the airports, Grant handlers, airlines, what have you, you know, the move to electrifies is has picked up dramatically in in recent years, where I think there's a bit of a gap right now, you know, not to have my head out to the government. But, you know, there's lots of government incentive for groundside electrification, and there's a gap when you start to move aracite to non plated equipment.

Max Gosney: 7:22

So, Marty, I see nodding along as those comments are made by Todd.

Marty Gray: 7:28

I would say, I mean, we need partners in the authorities, and certainly some provincial advocates to drive these initiatives for sure. If you look at where we are today, and you and if you went back and took a snapshot of where we were this time, last year, I mean, there were plenty of airports, Canadian airports that had zero infrastructure, you know, and if you fast forward to today, they have done a tremendous job in installing building infrastructure to support what we have taken delivery of. So I think, you know, as as the airport's progress in infrastructure, construction implementation, it's just kind of aligning itself with the supply chain of equipment. And right now, we're in a fortunate position. But we must continue to just keep driving these initiatives with with our partners,

Matthew Weitzel: 8:17

and then gave a think that you can maybe help bridge that gap a little bit, right? Yeah, sure. So

Gabe Sampson: 8:22

we've been supplying charging infrastructure to this industry for 20 years now. And we've definitely seen a change in who's procuring that equipment. I think everybody's right, that the who's leading that decision kind of varies based on the market, the airport, the location, the airlines, but, you know, 20 years ago, the airlines were buying charging infrastructure and having it installed at their gates at airports to support their electric GSE. Whereas now, they're definitely leaning more towards trying to get the authorities the airport authorities or the seas or the states to provide that infrastructure for them, like Marty indicated. So I think it's a joint effort of airline participation and training for them trying to meet their corporate environmental goals. And then the airport's trying to support that and also meet maybe some of their own environmental goals. So it's definitely more of a partnership now, and it's ever been,

Marty Gray: 9:09

it's great that we have all these aligned targets, if you look at what our mandates are, are between 2002 now and 2030 is very, very common footwear seeing, you know, the airport. So we're all striving for that common goal, which is certainly beneficial to all of us. Yeah,

Todd Ernst: 9:22

our GHG goals are actually pretty closely aligned. We're shooting for net zero by 2050 45% reduction versus 2010 by 2030. That's our scope one and two, but we're looking to support our partners for the scope three reductions. Two.

Max Gosney: 9:36

Thank you. Questions come in from the audience. Thanks for the first question, which our standardization is critical to adoption success. Do you see a change when manufacturing teams can agree on a single charge plug type, similar to the Eevee car industry? Not doing this also hampers infrastructure as multiple vendors at a site may have different plug needs? I'll

Brad Compton: 9:57

certainly say that's very difficult for us now. There's many Many options, it's hard for us to keep track, one customer could have three different sets of plugins for the infrastructure per city. So it gets a little difficult. If you can standardize that, that would be super huge from a manufacturing standpoint, from

Josh Parkin: 10:15

an Oshkosh perspective of degree. We see a lot of variability not just here in the Americas, but around the world. And we're having to adapt. And of course, that's ultimately what we do. We listen to what the customer needs are. But from a consistency standpoint and help I know, there's a lot of work going on, both in the SAE conference as well as IATA to try to work and put some suggestions out there. So people can standardize some, but there's a lot of work to do on that front for sure.

Max Gosney: 10:38

Oh, and you give us a tale de vos

Erwan Jalil: 10:40

to confirm. I think it's a big driver of complexity today. It's not only the the hardware, but also the software. So charger, communication protocols that don't speak the same language make essentially, the flexibility in the operation extremely difficult to handle. So it is today an issue and some countries have figured it out. Thinking about China, which is the only place today where you have standards for electrification. And I think the rest of the world needs needs to move in that direction

Max Gosney: 11:09

is that from a Swissport perspective, from a handers perspective, David has that as our challenge having multiple plugs on

David Farias: 11:15

limits our options and where we're where we can read pivot equipment. So at the end of the day, without that charger, infrastructure aligned, and that protocol not in place that does limit our ability to move equipment around. So yeah, we'd love nothing more than to be have some additional alignment there. That

Erwan Jalil: 11:30

said, there are some solutions that as manufacturers we're working on. So for instance, the ability to recognize different protocols automatically. That's not something overly difficult to do. So in then I think in the US, we're seeing a move towards, you know, CCS as a standard plug. So I think there are ways to converge fast without necessarily the regulator imposing new standards on us, but it is going to take us to work collectively on this.

Brad Compton: 11:58

I think the infrastructure is going more high voltage as well. And I think that's could be the future of the airport. And that would align more with the automotive industry, is what we're seeing. But yeah, there's a lot of work to be done in terms of standardization.

Max Gosney: 12:11

Thank you, Tom to you. We know many panels we've held at JH eyes and and often there is a comment around frustrations about the infrastructure and the lack of infrastructure for electric charging at airports. Can you give us an Airport's perspective on this and just some of the scope of the challenge and trying to map to demand amongst your stakeholders? Yeah,

Todd Ernst: 12:32

sure. Happy to how much time? Do I have?

Max Gosney: 12:35

49 minutes? 21 seconds? Yeah, no,

Todd Ernst: 12:38

I look, we're all working towards the same thing. At the end of the day, like you, we all we all have our own carbon reduction targets. We're all looking to move people, planes and bags as efficiently as we possibly can, you know, Toronto Pearson? Well, before my time, I think it might be about 20 years ago, when we put the first GSC chargers airside. And we've got about 80 or so, and quickly building out to just over 100, and then it's going to expand by a couple of times, at least going forward from there. So going the, although the activity curve is smooth and steady, but the curve for infrastructure is like a sawtooth, right? You build stuff and sometimes you overbill like we did many years ago, and then then you get to a point where you're a plateau and you're under the curve for a while. So that's that's really the challenge with infrastructure is you can't scale it up, generally speaking as smoothly as the activity ramps up. So we need to work closely together to understand the timings and be able to match the supply with demand as efficiently as we possibly can.

Max Gosney: 13:46

And inevitably, inevitably, there'll be a lag, I guess, between the supply and demand.

Todd Ernst: 13:51

Yeah, there'll be some lags and the but there are some tools also to help to address legs, you know, for instance, CEO, portable charging solutions, battery technologies and whatnot that are out there to help bridge that gap. So I don't think all is lost, you know, will will be able to keep up. It just won't be all with fixed static electrical infrastructure.

Max Gosney: 14:14

Perhaps if I can come to you guys, if we are if battery technology can help play a part whilst the infrastructure is catching up interest to get your, your views on on what's out there and sort of developments and innovation in the battery technology arena.

Gabe Sampson: 14:27

Yeah, sure. So specifically in reference to chargers, so there's a there's a lot of work underway to add batteries to charging systems that can help shed the load, even out the duty cycle from the facilities point of view, mobile charging platforms, you know, that might have onboard battery storage that can be charged up and off peak times and then and then parked remotely to recharge GSC at a different time of the day. So I think there's a lot of effort underway right now. I think within months, certainly within a year you're going to start to see a lot of those products roll out I don't think from an airport facility perspective, I would assume you guys and a lot of other airports are looking at, at building battery storage systems into the building that can then you know, store energy that can be redistributed to electric GSE or EVs anywhere else, you know, you had solar panels so that you can start harnessing energy from the sun. So the same battery technology that's powering the vehicles is also being looked at to help solve the infrastructure problem we all have, and we all deal with every day. Yeah, no,

Todd Ernst: 15:27

that's a great point. I mean, it's it's not the energy challenge isn't just ground support equipment electrification. So, you know, in the case of Toronto Pearson, we're already in a grid constrained area. The peak demand is around about 40 megawatts or so. With electrification and facility growth and increases and air traffic over the coming years, you know, that demand is going to more than double. So we're gonna get to more like 80 100 megawatts of demand in a constrained area with infrastructure that we're in the process of upgrading. But we do need to take a an energy ecosystem approach where we are looking at how solar how battery how even hydrogen and other alternatives to electrons can all fit together to make this work efficiently.

Max Gosney: 16:12

We talked about electric and you are to the age where the hydrogen word for the first time I'll just be interested to throw open if there is this lag, this challenge around infrastructure, what opportunities to the panel think there are for other alternative sustainable fuel sources hydrogen, biofuels be interested to get some views Joshi caught my eye at the wrong minute.

Josh Parkin: 16:30

Yeah, sure. So Oshkosh certainly isn't new to the electrification game, we've had electric GSC, since the 1960s, or their electric product. And we've seen that expansion and we have experimented with some others zero emission solutions, hydrogen included, it's definitely come a long ways, from our perspective, we're very comfortable with the hydrogen fuel cell technology, very safe, very reliable. And that I think, is the point that Max is making, just like electric that challenge will be in terms of infrastructure distribution, the approach that we've taken is looking at it from a modular perspective, and similar to maybe your your propane grill at home, instead of you just replaced the modular tank. And so we're going to be partnering with a company for modular distribution of hydrogen to bring hydrogen to the operations to simplify that, and hopefully accelerate the ability to to look at some alternative energy in addition to to electric but to have have hydrogen as well. So there'll be an option that we're exploring in GSC, but also in our mobile charging platform, the amp cart, oh, and

Max Gosney: 17:32

how, you know, but how much of a proportion Do you think hydrogen will make up of TLDs proposition in years to come?

Erwan Jalil: 17:39

It's hard to say I think hydrogen will depend a lot on clean, affordable infrastructure being available locally at the airport. And you know, that's going to be mostly country bets, where maybe Saudi, for instance, will be one of those places in the world. But it to complement this hydrogen alternative, one of the things we've introduced is hybrid technologies, which allow essentially to decouple the phasing of this infrastructure that we were talking about, which may be lagging to the capex decisions that you need to make today to replace aging fleets, and essentially buys you some time, still making an impact on your on your carbon footprint, fuel efficiency, safety in the approach of the aircraft, while giving you the time you need in order to get the chargers in place. So there's different ways to address that challenge today. And that's just one of them.

Max Gosney: 18:25

Brat from a Textron perspective,

Brad Compton: 18:28

I think, you know, electrification is probably the most popular, they're the rock star right now. And I hydrogen is kind of looking around the corner peeking its way in a little bit. I know there's gonna be challenges around that infrastructure as well. And although we're we're always looking for the next best thing, but we can't do it in a vacuum. We've got to get the feedback from our customers from the ecosystem that we live in the airports included. But yeah, I think we're, again, we're not fast lane electrification. And we know there's going to be something next and that could be hydrogen, and that could go kind of fall back on hybrid vehicles. So certainly, yeah. And we're just looking at, you know, all vehicles, not necessarily talking tractors, or belt loaders, you know, you got to take that next step into the de icing and these other vehicles that you can electrify so. Yeah, I would say that there's gonna be another one, but just make sure we master the electrification. First question

Max Gosney: 19:17

that's come in the OS are lithium batteries, just a stepping stone because you have environmental challenges the sustainability of getting hold of the lithium and then recycling it? So is the lithium battery and electrification as as sustainable as we might think. You've

Erwan Jalil: 19:35

got different chemistries? So I think generally speaking in the, in the GSE world, we tend to use LFP. So lithium phosphate, first chemistry, which is much cleaner than the neacail Martinez, NMC cobalt chemistry. It's also much safer from a thermal behavior standpoint. So I think as long as you know you, you avoid the use of Nikko and McGinnis which are the most doubtful components in terms of the carbon footprint of lithium ion technology, you're doing pretty well, from a environmental standpoint.

Gabe Sampson: 20:10

Totally agree, by the way, but I mean, to answer the question a little more directly, I would say yes, I think lithium batteries are just a stepping stone. You know, we, we lived in a world for many, many years where everything was powered by lead acid batteries, right. And that's a, that is, by the way, very, very sustainable product, lead acid batteries are the most recycled product on the planet, the entire battery can be recycled down to the lead and the acid, the steel, everything, so but it's also a very mature product, right? It's been around for, you know, I don't know, 100 years or so let's say. But as demand for powering vehicles has increased, the lead acid battery has kind of met its capacity and performance. So lithium has had to step in and fill those roles. It is pretty sustainable. Um, there's still some problems to be solved with Florida cyclability. But I do believe it's just a stepping stone. There's so much there's so much development battery technology today, you'd be a fool to think that in 10 years, there's not going to be three or four other different chemistries of batteries that have that are now attractive to this market and, and maybe powering different types of vehicles.

Max Gosney: 21:08

That's interesting. Can you enlighten us on some of those alternatives? Some of the things that might be a stepping stone to I mean, I've heard of so so disodium. But yeah, yeah,

Gabe Sampson: 21:14

sodium ion batteries is a rapidly improving technology that's going to be readily available in coming years. It's sort of available today. We're certainly testing it in our facility for certain applications and has, it has a lot of promise, you know, you hear reference of, of solid state batteries, you hear references of lithium batteries with different electrolyte chemistries that can do different things. So we're very small, right? If you look at what we do as a GSE, industry, in terms of the battery world, we're a blip on the map, right? If we all went away, and we weren't buying electric GE anymore, the battery industry wouldn't miss us. There's so much there's so much bigger opportunities. That's where the development opportunities are going to be focused in will ultimately benefit from that, for sure. Anyone else

Max Gosney: 21:55

wants to comment on lithium and battery technology in their fleets. Now, your heads go back, no one's no one's going to take that one on? How would the panel like to see the supply chain? You're sharing the cost of investment and adoption of more sustainable GSC to get alignment and to speed, the rollout of more sustainable equipment? And can adoption ever be coordinated? When you have the supply chain? And component parts of supply chain are in competition, different airlines, different ground handlers? So how do we align better on our on sharing some of the cost of implementing new technology forms game,

Gabe Sampson: 22:34

I think it goes back to what Marty said earlier. I mean, it's it's the partnership between the airlines and airports, right? If the airports and they are already doing it, but if they continue their efforts to provide charging infrastructure, then that makes the justification for an airline to buy electric GSE a no brainer, you don't have to invest that cash and chargers and you can go focus your effort on in your funds on buying the vehicle, you need to do your job. I think that accelerates the process. Some airports are going even further and of course, mandating, you know, the airlines by electric GSE, kind of in exchange for them putting in the infrastructure so that that mandate certainly speeds up the process as well.

Max Gosney: 23:10

Can you Sorry, I was

Erwan Jalil: 23:11

gonna say the cost equation is actually positive. Right? So obviously, you save tremendously on fuel. And the cost of electricity, by and large is that, you know, is a winter maintenance. So it's more the capex hurdle in certain situations, and there you've got, obviously financing financing solutions that you can put in place. So I think it's, it's not so much a cost driven barrier today, it's it's really more indeed, the synchronization, the coordination, to make it happen with all stakeholders aligned. But again, most operators, all operators will actually win from a cost standpoint, going electric, there's no question.

Unknown: 23:48

And

Josh Parkin: 23:48

just to add, I think, you know, there's other models that can be considered in terms of how, whether it's airlines or the airports that are monetizing that, you know, with the smart charging technology, you're able to see and recognize the batteries are charging. So there's opportunity for power, selling of power or providing charge as a service and using telemetry type options. So there are kind of different models that can be explored as well to help offset the costs and make it actually a revenue generating opportunity.

Todd Ernst: 24:17

I just put out there that with the expansion phase that we're going into with Pearson lift, it's actually presented an opportunity for us to do some of the large scale upgrades or electrical infrastructure to be able to bring in the the EV and E GSE. Charging to help support our partners. So our objective is by about 2030, that we've got enough charging capacity out there that you know, all of our GSE can be electric so that you know the support will be there in terms of infrastructure. Excellent. Thank

Max Gosney: 24:50

you. Questions come in for you, Matt, which asked How are leasing companies strategically looking at electric equipment for their customers, and how do you stay ahead of the demand in order to For people to preside, in order to provide the equipment in a fast manner,

Matthew Weitzel: 25:05

it's a real balance. Because the industry as we've been talking about is really kind of moving at a slower rate than we then I think we kind of expected due to the constraints of the airport as far as infrastructure. So we are investing heavily into electric equipment. However, we're not going all in it, we're not not all of our fleet is going to be electric, we're going to buy both internal combustion and electric. So but we have been doing a lot of the purchasing a lot of electric equipment from a bunch of different manufacturers just so that way. We have stuff so that people can try it and put it into their fleet and test it out. So, you know, it's been, it's been great. So and then I had a question for, I think, David, are you all planning Swissport? Planning on repowering, a bunch of current internal combustion? Or are you looking to buy and purchase new electric equipment.

David Farias: 26:00

So I think it's probably more of a cost equation. So we are interested in both solutions at the end of the day, but the price points today on new equipment are very competitive to what it would cost to repower a piece of equipment. We are talking with a couple of manufacturers to see what we can do as far as that repowering goes. But right now, our friends here on stage are very, very competitive in terms of making it a better product if we went with a new unit. That

Max Gosney: 26:27

was a groundskeeper follow up questions will ask you what percentage of the fleet in the future GC hydrogen comprising? Do you have some projections,

David Farias: 26:37

we're a bit risk averse, I think on the Swissport space. So lithium is still something that we're not fully diving into just yet. So from hydrogen perspective, I'm not sure that we're going to see that in the next couple of years.

Max Gosney: 26:51

Thank you wait, wait and see how Yeah,

Todd Ernst: 26:54

not to see specific by thought be worth mentioning. We do actually have our first hydrogen fuel station under construction. It's in late commissioning stages at Toronto Pearson his groundside. But we are looking to have a percentage of our fleet, we're starting with five hydrogen, passenger vehicles, and municipal transit. So we're starting to see and get interested in the potential for hydrogen as a percentage of their fleets. So battery electric is definitely you know, broadly speaking, you know, the more market ready more readily available. And it is great in a lot of applications, there are some applications where hydrogen does a little bit better, it's I think, ultimately, it's going to become like gasoline and diesel is what battery electric and hydrogen will eventually be where, you know, high torque, you know, heavy use applications will tend to lean a bit more towards hydrogen, but also encourage folks to consider that, you know, over the longer term as the both mature and become more available to consider the, you know, the flexibility that alternatives to electrification can provide. Just

Max Gosney: 28:00

throw it out back to the the manufacturers on the panel. But do you see that? Brad, do you think that the heavier lifting kit may or may become more hydrogen based? I

Brad Compton: 28:09

don't think we somewhat unknown. I would think for us right now. I mean, we're so heavily focused on making sure we're gonna get it right with the lithium in these different charging systems, different batteries, make sure everything's talking together. But yeah, like I said, it's, it's creeping up there on us, but we'll, we'll gauge it at a later point in time.

Max Gosney: 28:28

Thank you, Josh. Yeah,

Josh Parkin: 28:29

just add in there. If Oshkosh is positioned, as we're really power agnostic, we continue to have internal combustion engine options. Most of our fleet have the option for electric and you know, as we've started hearing demand for hydrogen, we want to be comfortable with the technology so that when the market is ready, that we have a great solution. And for us, the number one is that we want to have our operators or owners of our equipment not have to make compromises as it relates to operating. So if they're going to choose hydrogen, they're going to choose electric or internal combustion. We want it to be able to perform a full shift and not worry about power or running out of energy. And so that's our number one is to make sure whatever ultimately bring the market to our customers is going to work great for him.

Unknown: 29:12

Thank you.

Max Gosney: 29:12

Another question from the floor asks, How does the panel feel about a fully electric di so from an operative maintenance and serviceability standpoint, is it truly feasible?

Unknown: 29:22

Yeah. Oh,

Brad Compton: 29:23

I think 100% Yes. And we're working on that now. On our innovative safe aero di Sir, we're gonna go that direction, and I think it's 100% accomplishable. These

Josh Parkin: 29:33

Oshkosh degrees

Max Gosney: 29:35

will be there as well. And so already in the market, I believe there are options there. Vestergaard

Brad Compton: 29:40

it's kinda like a coming soon for us. Yes. I think it's definitely it's like going back to that point is if you just don't jump into the deep end, right. You want to make sure it's vetted out the technology's there and you touched on maintenance training. So yeah, we'll go through a very extensive demo phase, but yeah, it's common. It's gonna come quickly. You gotta get there.

David Farias: 30:00

We'd love to see it on our site as well. At the end of the day, the smaller pieces your back to your belt litters, you can see that the TCO was there. And then those de icing trucks that you need to work, when it comes the breakdowns on those units today is far too high, and it's probably the rail liability that's gonna go and increase if we can get to that point.

Max Gosney: 30:18

Thank you and move on to the next question here, which is how much of an opportunity is there to market the adoption of electric and sustainable GSC during pushback and turnaround to increasingly environmentally aware passengers? Marty, is that something you'd ever look to do as an airline there to sort of promote the fact you're using electric or hydrogen kit during during pushback? Yeah,

Marty Gray: 30:41

absolutely. I think there's tremendous opportunity. And it's certainly that we are very cognizant to is, you know, is what opportunity would that present. So appropriate branding, electrification brand identifications, our customers, not only our customers, but our employees see what our commitments are, when it's front and center, it's essentially, you know, in some hubs, it's upwards of 1000 assets, that could have potential opportunity to do just that. Share what our ambitions are, and get a lot of employee sentiment a lot employee engagement. Absolutely. I think it's a tremendous opportunity, and one that you will see us adopting to, and

Max Gosney: 31:20

our views on David. Yeah,

David Farias: 31:23

I mean, from a brand perspective, I think there's a tremendous amount of opportunity to make sure that we're highlighting that to not only our internal customers, but our external customers. It's there. And I think, from a corporate social governance piece, it's all the way around. So from government, to municipalities, and to our manufacturers and friends. Everyone wants a piece of this. Thank you. And

Max Gosney: 31:42

now the question is coming from the audience, which asked, What's the glycol heating time on your electric devices?

Brad Compton: 31:49

Specific? I'm not ready for that one yet.

Unknown: 31:51

But no, no? How could you

Brad Compton: 31:55

say it's fast? It's gonna be really, really fast.

Max Gosney: 31:58

We're saying fast.

Brad Compton: 32:00

It's gonna be a rabbit, not a turtle. It's gonna go fast.

Max Gosney: 32:03

Yeah, we'll look at the text back and get back to you on that one. I think to get a deeper answer we have we've talked about hydrogen, we talked about electric, I'd be interested to get the panel's views on other alternatives. They might see the biofuels or anything else you think will be a serious player further down the line. I can just talk talk, start with the closest to me, and I'll move down to Sure.

Todd Ernst: 32:25

I mean, I can just say from the perspective of our own fleet management, we're looking at everything. We're looking at electric, we're looking at hydrogen, we're actually doing our first trials with renewable diesel this summer.

Max Gosney: 32:37

Josh, I

Josh Parkin: 32:38

think I was just gonna mention in terms of biofuels, we certainly are seeing an increase of adoption there. It's a common question that we'll get from our equipment owners as to whether they can run different biofuels into in their engines? And in most cases, the answer is yes, particularly tear for finals for most of our manufacturers with Cummins droits. We're seeing that work successfully. There's some things that we suggest that they do to help with filtering, etc. But generally speaking, that's a great option. And we see that adopted more and more around the world. Mati

Max Gosney: 33:07

will, do you see sort of biofuels being part of the future? I do lead strategy?

Marty Gray: 33:11

I do. And we're certainly aware of it. We're keeping, you know, keeping eyes on it. Electrification is certainly keeping us busy. And I think, you know, we've made commitment in our people and investment in equipment. There's a significant component of change management behaviors ramp, there's a lot of opportunity here. And think I'm going to lean on the experts at the appropriate time to look at alternative fields. But it's very, very important for us to get into electrification and to get it right. And really maximize what we've set out to do. Right, let's meet our obligations. First priority. I just don't want to get, you know, trying to do so many different things that, that we let opportunities slip by. And

Max Gosney: 33:52

other comments from the panel on our fuels. Know, Bradley, not not sure I can see where your face now

Brad Compton: 33:59

an expert on biofuels, but we know we have the options for you know, I mean, some of the value you can bring from different suppliers and these guys on the stage as well, as you know, we still run an awful lot of gasoline engines. The diesels are lagging behind, but we still have demand for diesel as well. You just got to keep up with the type four type five type six type deals, but yeah, you got to kind of have it all in. But the focus is on electrification.

Marty Gray: 34:24

What's good to know is that there's you know, there's options being developed in the background, whether it's other industry, transport, mining, you know, so we may not necessarily have them today, but what does tomorrow look like? But again, our focus needs must be to remain just on electrification. But it's always so is good to know that industry is driving change elsewhere.

Max Gosney: 34:45

Thank you another question from the floor, which asks, do you see challenges with respect to maintenance staff for E GSE? The skills for repairs and troubleshooting become a lot are very different from traditional diesel, motorcycles. Better engines? Are manufacturers able to assist with competencies for staff currently most fuel repair costs are far higher for electric Jessie.

Brad Compton: 35:08

Yeah, I mean, that's that's a good point. And yeah, I think the manufacturers are more than willing to help. And it's Marty would tell you to it's there's a learning curve. I mentioned high voltage, that's a whole different ballgame when he talks about, you know, getting in there and doing some maintenance. So training is key. And we understand that and we're ready for that. From

Josh Parkin: 35:29

Josh perspective, that's typically what we see as well is that there's, you know, when to change, when people either have mixed fleets or electrics new to their station, there's a learning curve. But generally speaking, the experience that our customers share is not only the fuel savings and the return on investment they get from that, but they are seeing reduction in their actual total cost of ownership for maintenance, repairs, the improvement around not only battery technology, but on AC DC motors and brushless technology in terms of motors, that's really helped reduce maintenance over time, and has not only allowing people to go zero mission, but really helping the bottom line as well. So

David Farias: 36:05

we see positive aspects of that, I think I'd say the industry has probably not been getting too healthy. In that regard. There's been a training gap inside of that space, even when you had traditional ice engines. And now that we're going to electrification, there's still a significant gap opportunities to be had with the manufacturers providing that training, but also in terms of introducing new vocational programs that can get folks excited to get into this industry. So that's been lagging and great opportunities there. Yeah, I

Erwan Jalil: 36:34

do think it's a, it's going to be a challenge, as we successfully hopefully deploy electrical equipment in electric equipment in the on the ramp over the coming, you know, five years is to really upgrade the skill sets. You need much more electrical savvy, you know, skills, sometimes software related skills, which, you know, we've had to gain on the OEM side, but are yet to fully, I think, document and establish associated programs. So some of our customers are insisting on this. And I think they're right, we need to do more of that as OEMs. We're determined to do it. And today, that's a thing that's going to be a challenge in the year two in the in the next two, three years, as we see more EGC Come on, come on the ramp.

Max Gosney: 37:20

No question that's come in, which is what are some of the documented results and customer feedback on the mobile charging units currently used on the ramp?

Josh Parkin: 37:30

I'd love to take that one. Sure. So late last year, Oshkosh released the mobile charging solution, which is called the amp cart that was developed in partnership with a customer hope you don't mind me mentioning that DHL by name. They were like many of you trying to decide how they could speed up the electrification of their GSE fleet, but also know with confidence that they had the ability to charge and that's where they amp cart came into, to play working with partners, like Avaris to preside provide the ampere policy chargers can charge between eight and 12 pieces of GSE. We have deployed, I think, over a half a dozen airports, I think there's close to a dozen units in the field right now. And it is helping that mobile charging. In this case, the first version is a diesel generator driven, it can also be powered from facility power to provide additional charging options, and it will ultimately help bridge the gap as as you know, a lot of topics we've been discussing and trying to catch up with the infrastructure required to the rapid expansion of, of GSE. Just one more point on that. Ground Support worldwide did a survey earlier this year. And most customers said they wanted to expand their electric fleets and 70. I think 71% said the single biggest reason why they weren't moving faster on electric GSE investment was due to lack of charging infrastructure. So we opened our small part, the ampark can help help support that

Max Gosney: 38:56

guy, did you want to come through and comment on the development in that area? And

Gabe Sampson: 39:01

absolutely, like Josh alluded to, I think the SAM cart products been been very successful, right? It's solved the immediate problems, right. So that so that airlines or cargo carriers or ground handlers could or could deploy electric GSC. And they'll certainly be more that to come I know, there's been a lot of interest in that product line. We also introduced sort of in a parallel unrelated effort, what we call a ramp runner, which is a simpler version of a mobile charging cart that is powered by 400 hertz ground power. So when a when a when a gate is not occupied, you can take the GPU cable, plug it into this cart, which is essentially the size of a bad card. And you know, recharge five pieces of GSE around this cart. So kind of a similar concept two totally different in technology. But again, just trying to bridge that gap in between GSC are sorry, electric GSE being delivered, and permanent charging infrastructure being installed. So I think in general, it's, you know that that concept, I think you're gonna see more and more of it. I know there's other I've seen other people Alex being introduced in our industry as well, just

Erwan Jalil: 40:03

one thing I have seen in Europe and in China is the use of GPU. So ground power units that are electric more and more, right battery powered GPUs, that can also be used as power banks, meaning sources of electricity for the GSE around it. And it's a great way to utilize, you know, mobile assets that are sources of electricity around the aircraft to address that gap. I think that will come in the US, too, in the years to come. Thank you,

Max Gosney: 40:33

David. Sorry, Marcia, even smile says Hi,

Marty Gray: 40:36

you know, I can't say enough about, you know, what the amp cart afforded us Air Canada with with flexibility, it really came in at at the appropriate time. And it really did a tremendous job, you know, bridging the gap of what we had taken delivery of what was not there to support it. But what this, what this afforded us to do has been tremendous is to the fact that Air Canada, we're operating with three of them now. And boy, it certainly have done its job. And then again, strategically, as we start to see the commissioning of charge or availability, again, there's more opportunity, because then we can redeploy it, and it's being mobile, we can move it to other airports, taking delivery, and then really start to drive, change culture, change how we operate in other places. It's been a fantastic asset for us.

Max Gosney: 41:31

And it's a great stepping stone, which is why we're here and while the infrastructure is under development.

Matthew Weitzel: 41:36

So Marty, will you only take the aim cart to places airports that the infrastructure is already on its way? Or are you looking to maybe deploy that, even if there's not infrastructure already going into place?

Marty Gray: 41:48

Yellow? Again, it's, strategically we are putting it in locations where we are taking delivery of equipment, obviously proportionate to scale, but when we know, you know, we are, we've already got established timelines for availability of charging, but there's a team in the background, they're also synchronizing that with another strategy to move it to locations, where again, you know, equipment is coming in, it's going to allow us to do just that. The mobility element of the cart and such is, it's, it's been fantastic strategically,

Brad Compton: 42:23

because we're pulling that around with electric tractor, right? diesel trucks. Thanks, Brad.

Gabe Sampson: 42:30

Brad, that's an interesting comment. You know, it does sound a little counterproductive to recharge electric vehicles with a diesel generator, right. But, you know, think about it, I drive to electric cars, I like to say they're coal powered, because ultimately, there's a power plant somewhere, typically burning something that, you know, provides the electricity. But the beauty of that is it's a single point source of emission, right? So they can you can monitor it, you can capture data, you can capture, you know, pollutants and handle it correctly, as opposed to a bunch of vehicles run around that maybe you're not regulated properly. Right. So in this case with the endcard. I have not done the numbers myself, but I'm sure sure Oshkosh has, but the net reduction in emissions is probably still pretty damn significant, right to get one big diesel generator running at a really high efficiency, you know, replacing a bunch of small diesel engines that are running at very low efficiency. So the impact should be very, fairly positive, just just on a use case basis. Yeah,

Josh Parkin: 43:27

precisely, you know, depending on what the size of the batteries that you're using, or replacing the size of the engine with the fuel burn was, but we just did a review with a customer last week, and they were replacing 16 pieces of diesel GSE with electric, and they're going to support that fleet with the amp cart. And we looked at worst case scenarios only being supported by the diesel engine, they were seeing close to 77 0% reduction in co2 emissions, trading out 16 diesel engines for one. So it is a it's not a zero emission solution. But it absolutely is a huge step in the right direction.

Max Gosney: 44:00

Thank you. What impacted the panel? See if we're saying that we're moving towards a kind of a mixed power source mix, fleet model in the future of electric hydrogen, other power sources? What impact will that have on on ownership patterns amongst ground handlers, operators, who are going to see good news for Matt and exceed more of a shift to to leasing models? because there'll be such variability and change?

Matthew Weitzel: 44:25

Yeah, I like that idea.

David Farias: 44:28

I think from our Grinling perspective, we prefer to own our equipment so much, you're sorry about that. Short term needs? Absolutely. We'll we'll reach out. But the shift to remain I think long term ownership is the key. And the useful life of electric equipment seems like it's going to outpace ice equipment. So it looks like it's definitely gonna support the case. No, no

Max Gosney: 44:48

major shift. Do you think in financing models as a result? No, certainly not. Swissport?

David Farias: 44:52

Not with us none.

Max Gosney: 44:54

Okay. Thank you. Other questions come in, related to glycol, so Have the manufacturers on the panel that will be there with glycol heating, temps times for an electric platform, do you believe it will surpass that of a diesel offering? Right.

Brad Compton: 45:09

I think it's too early to tell. I think we're still reviewing that. I don't know if it'll surpass where we are now. But we'll see.

Josh Parkin: 45:18

We're not to a point where we're talking about the specific specs of the Electric Gas at this time, but we'll keep you posted.

Brad Compton: 45:24

Let me it's a good question. That's gonna that'll be something we'll have to figure out and have that data, because that'll be certainly a question we get asked when we get there.

Max Gosney: 45:31

Excellent. Thank you. Can the panel comment on safety, potential safety concerns on both lithium batteries and hydrogen? I

Gabe Sampson: 45:41

could talk about batteries. I don't I don't have a lot of experience with hydrogen. But so there's there's absolutely safety risks with batteries, right? I mean, if no different with a fuel tank, right? I mean, a battery is a fuel tank, it stores electrons or energy instead of gasoline or diesel. And it it can go bad, right? Luckily, it doesn't happen very often. You know, we're not we're not dealing with this on a daily basis. But I think there's, there's from the battery manufacturers perspective, there's a lot of effort by you know, these good quality manufacturers put into safety features, to to meeting certain certifications, like UL standards for battery manufacturing, there's a lot a lot of effort put into the controls of the batteries to limit detrimental conditions like over discharge and overcharge. And that's typically when things can go really wrong. So I think the design of the product is key, you can design a very, very safe lithium battery, just like you can with a you know, an internal combustion vehicle. And operation is key. So that that comes with education. So you know, we spend a lot of time educating the maintenance teams and the operations teams about these risks, and then what to do if something does go wrong, but most of it is about prevention. And there's there's quite a bit effort being put into that there's, there's SAE committees focused on it, there's, there's NFPA regulations being written around it. So it's obviously like, again, like, like I said earlier, we're a small piece of the battery world. So we're going to inherit a lot of the knowledge from the overall battery community that is developing the standards, and it should make us all safer.

Max Gosney: 47:14

Thank you guys. Other comments?

Todd Ernst: 47:16

I can talk a little bit yeah, hydrogen safety side, given we have the fill station that we were getting some experience with. It's it's been had its first charge of hydrogen already for testing purposes. And I'd say it's, I wouldn't say it's more or less safe than conventional fuels, it just needs to be handled differently. At the end of the day, in open air situations, if there's a leak, it can actually be more safe in the fact that hydrogen rises, and it disperses very quickly. So as long as it's a dispersion that's below combustion concentrations, and there's no source to ignite it, it goes into the air and it's completely non toxic, and you're fine. Whereas with the fuel spill, you've got this pool on the ground that you have to deal with, and and contain and clean up and potentially also toxics in the soil. Now if it's if it's a covered situation, then then you have a different situation, but it can be mitigated by having sensors to make sure that you know any leaks, if they come up against the ceiling that they're you know, it's not pooling at a high point somewhere, that would be a safety concern. But again, with sensors, pressures, detection, whatnot, it's it's all quite manageable. Thank you.

Max Gosney: 48:32

I'm David and Marty, as you know, in terms of, I guess, lithium, perhaps there's something that you're very much looking at the safety training across operators users.

Marty Gray: 48:43

Yeah, I mean, you know, Eric and I were safety first and always. So it's embedded in anything that we do. So when we start, you know, when we were getting into electrification, again, there's a lot of research and I take great comfort in those who are supporting us, when when you see standards being applied to manufacturing, the safe handling. Even in Canada, there's an element of this where you start talking high voltage, Evie, it's regulated. These are all things that give us a great sense of comfort around safety,

David Farias: 49:16

and good safety first all the way through and that's why I think we're a little bit risk averse to lithium Swissport. As Gabe mentioned earlier, lead acid is very mature seems to work just fine opportunity charges there. And if you do that to take care of it so far that's that's the direction we're gonna continue to go and have a panel

Brad Compton: 49:34

I think too. You know, from a manufacturer standpoint, you come up here you talk product, I think we miss a lot about the value add we all have as our when we look at our factories, and we spend a lot of time training, continuously training, the folks that are building the equipment and working on the equipment and our field tech, so it's it's number one for us safety but also just making sure they understand the technology and the risks out there because it's always changing.

Max Gosney: 49:59

Thank you And we've got seven, eight minutes left Ladies and Gents for you got any final questions, then please put them through an app where you can raise your hand, just to make sure we get through all the audience questions this afternoon. I just want to, I guess there's a sort of summary perspective from the panel just wanted to ask you to outline how you see the ramp changing here in the Americas market over the next 1015 years and what it will look like how different it will look on the power sources, we will see if the ramp of say 2035

Brad Compton: 50:31

I'm surprised we haven't talked autonomous. I think that's still in the conversation. I think it's going to take a while before we get there. Yeah, I think you're gonna see a lot of things on the ramp change. Maybe it's going to happen with how safely in how quickly we get that aircraft for support, the team is turning that aircraft around. Yeah, you're always gonna see, I think we're at a point where you're gonna see innovation, you're gonna see something new every year, I think something like the ramp cart, something going into autonomous, there's always gonna be something coming up, and it's gonna come up pretty quick how it looks in 10 years, I think you're gonna see charger infrastructure catch up, be a little cleaner, and hopefully a lot smoother.

Max Gosney: 51:08

Thanks, Marty.

Marty Gray: 51:10

I think we're going to see, you know, trends change over the years. And I'm certainly, you know, advocate for just that for change, doing more with less, safer, you know, removing a whole lot of what could be seen as the human factor in unfortunate incidents, accidents, you know, decongesting, some of the ramp space, but really giving our people the best that we can get them to perform their functions. But all that to say, I see tremendous change coming in years to come. Tournaments would be another, you know, great example of what that could look like. Remote control, you know, the likes of the modal talk. I mean, these are all big significant game changers in the market. Josh?

Josh Parkin: 51:55

Yeah, from an Oshkosh perspective, we just continue to look to our market our customers and look to see what they define as success. And oftentimes, that means operator safety, it means increased efficiency and reduced cost. And then ultimately, they want a highly reliable piece of equipment. So we'll continue to focus on innovations that help in those three areas.

Gabe Sampson: 52:18

Electric, right, I mean, that's what we're all talking about it there's gonna be much more electrical equipment, but I think it's, I think it's going to be different in a few ways. I'm a big believer in automotive charging technology making its way on to airport ramps. It's been mentioned a couple times today, but as as fleet vehicles start driving around that are electric, you're gonna need a way to charge them and why can't the same charger that charges that vehicle, which is a standard, right, that we all can live by my cat that also charged GSE? Right, I think I think that is the future for for the electrification efforts that are going forward, it's gonna take some time, because there's a lot of legacy equipment that you can't just abandon. But I think you'll start to see chargers very soon that have both capabilities. And then I think eventually you'll see a trend towards the automotive standard as the charger of choice for for airports.

Max Gosney: 53:10

Thank you what's the Swissport fleet look like in 2035? The question,

David Farias: 53:15

I'd say it's it'll be a half electric by then hopefully, from motorized side. But I think it'll be a safer ramp. I think that the end of the day, the innovations that are taking place from a user perspective are are leaps and bounds from where we were 10 years ago. And if we can get more of an electric fleet, I think that gives us more controls to engineer out some of the risk until we get to potentially an autonomous ramp.

Max Gosney: 53:36

Thank you.

Unknown: 53:37

Oh, one,

Erwan Jalil: 53:38

you know, I think one typically underestimates what can be achieved over 10 years and over estimates, what can be achieved over one year. So I think 10 years from now, I think all of this is going to be happening, much fewer people on the ramp, and much more automation, much safer environment, much more activity, you know, that automation will enable. So that's very exciting, I think and as OEMs, you know, we obviously are totally committed to push further innovations in a safe way and work with the whole community here to make that a reality. But they're very optimistic about the change.

Max Gosney: 54:15

Thank you.

Todd Ernst: 54:17

Pretty much everything that's been said. Yeah, trouble of going towards the end. Yeah, exactly. But, I mean, yeah, I might be a bit of an outlier in terms of how bullish am and hydrogen. I do think it. It's not the magic bullet, but it does have a place in the mix. I think it will be in the mix. And yeah, electrification, Saf, it's all going to be out there and it's gonna be much greener and and also safer. apron,

Max Gosney: 54:43

and at Toronto, Pearson and other airports. The infrastructure will have moved on, right. Yes, absolutely. Excellent. Excellent news for us. Yeah,

Matthew Weitzel: 54:52

I'd say that if you want to learn more about how GSE is going to change in the next 10 years, you should listen to GSC podcasts. where we, we cover all these topics from automation to electrification? I mean, you can in telematics, you can get all of it on the GSC podcast. So I think, you know, we didn't rehearse that. So yeah, I'm gonna continue having those conversations with people in the industry so they can really learn about what's coming down the pipeline. Thank

Max Gosney: 55:18

you. And I'd also say, also bit delighted to welcome all of the audience to find out more at GSC Expo Europe, which is happening in Lisbon. see on the slide there, 70 to 90 September, all manufacturers in the room will be there working with the IMA team agenda and the team and the issues that were covered during this discussion. electrification, hydrogen, biofuels, autonomous vehicle safety, that will all be under under the microscope there, and I'll be equipment demos, and you guys will be showing off the latest solution. So make a note the dates and the store is going to run, isn't it?

Matthew Weitzel: 55:52

Yeah, I'm Max. And I had to plug some stuff at the end, right. So I also

Max Gosney: 55:56

have to finish in under an hour because I don't wanna give you too much editing to do on the cutting room floor. But ladies and gents, we we we really appreciate all your questions that have come in and your engagement in the discussion. Thank you very much. Please join me in giving our panel a big round of applause. Thank you. Can't help. My last question to put Matt on the spot. And when might the audience be listening to this one? Episode, there's no pressure if

Matthew Weitzel: 56:27

it is a great question. Get this out next week. So everybody can really enjoy listening to this all over again next week,

Max Gosney: 56:35

and we will send that to you. We'll send a link to you and make sure you know when it is released and enjoy the lesson. Thank you all very much.

Matthew Weitzel: 56:50

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the GSC podcast. We hope you found it informative and engaging. If this episode resonated with you, please share it with your colleagues and peers and the ground support equipment community. Your support is invaluable to us. We'd appreciate if you could take a moment to rate and review our podcast. Your feedback not only encourages us but also helps expand our reach within the GSE community. Keep an eye out for more episodes as we continue to explore the dynamic world of ground operations bring you the latest trends, insights and stories from the industry. Thank you are listening to the GSD podcast. And until we meet again. stay grounded and keep pushing forward.